What would you rather have?

"Stupidru" (Schm1an) 01/01/2014 at 18:14 • Filed to: None

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So here's the story. I have this old 2003 Impreza wagon that seems to be the little engine that could. It had trouble starting the other day in -9 degree Fahrenheit weather with what I think was a bit of ice stuck in the fuel lines (the fuel pump wasn't humming along when the key was in accessory mode. Ran a bottle of Heet through the tank and no more problems). However, if any unexpected repairs sneak up or if some North Shore Nancy driving a Range Rover decides she doesn't see me behind her iPhone when she's coming up to a stoplight, then I need to have a backup plan in place.

Whatever my next car will be, I know I'm going to want all-wheel drive, a 4-door hatchback, and a manual transmission. That narrows down my choices quite a bit, but after test driving a few VWs over Christmas I know that I absolutely love that little 2.0L turbo mill and VW's 6-speed transmission. However, I've had three Subarus in my life and two of them have had the 2.5L turbo engine which I've become quite familiar with. The Subaru 5-speed is a bit rubbery and notchy too, and I don't need everything the STI offers to warrant upgrading to the 6-speed. That brings me to my next decision: Golf R or 2012 WRX? Both can be had for around the same price with comparable miles, in a slight favor of the WRX. The refinement and overall build quality in the VWs over my Subarus was surprising to say the least. I test drove a WRX last year with my uncle and it was raw, noisy, and in your face. I'm 25 and starting to lose any "boy racer" image I ever had and I just need something to satisfy my internal speed demon while driving my wife and our dog around (and also have room in the back for friends/bags/kids/stuff we get from Home Depot). Lastly, the VW gets better gas mileage at 19/27 whereas the WRX hatch gets 19/25. The VW folk seem to have no problem getting better than the EPA claim, however, whereas my Subarus have struggled getting anything above EPA estimates.

So what would you pick? The cars below are in the colors I would pick for each

Brian Silvestro > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:18

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WRXs are too common, no one will even take a second glance. I would get a Golf R. This way you can be more unique than people with WRXs and put GTI fanboy drivers in their place.

twinturbobmw > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:19

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Personally I would pick the VW just because I love German cars and VWs, but I think the WRX would be the better choice. The WRX's handling is most likely more advanced since that's what the car is known for.

Dsscats > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:20

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Golf R. Not only is it more rare, but also more mature and, in my opinion, a better drive.

Stupidru > twinturbobmw 01/01/2014 at 18:21

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That's my internal struggle. I know the WRX is the better drivers car, but I need a little refinement in my life. I've become a bit of an AWD snob so I'm not sure about how well 4-motion works, but I'm sure a set of Blizzaks would do the trick. Lastly, how is VW's overall reliability? Any big issues like the Subaru 2.5L headgasket and wheel bearing nightmares?

Stupidru > Dsscats 01/01/2014 at 18:23

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That's what I'm leaning towards

dogisbadob > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:24

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VW probably isn't your best choice if you're on a budget and need the car to start every time. The mpg savings will easily be erased by the first repair that sidelines your family.

Is AWD really necessary? If not, the Focus ST might be a better choice.

The new WRX that's supposed to come out soon should get better mileage anyway. Another good option might be the Nissan Juke, believe it or not.

What's the depreciation like on Countrymen? I believe you can get AWD and manual on it, and even though people are like "ZOMG BIGGER MINI WHAT A OBAMANATION" it's actually the size of a Focus which should be fine for your usage.

Do we get the 500L yet? It should meet your requirements; there's no way they're not going to offer it with AWD.

The Suzuki SX4 might also suit your needs.

shpuker > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:24

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Personally I'd be going with the WRX no question. It's no secret I'm a bit of a Subie fan boy though.

I certainly understand the wanting a little bit more grown up car part though, ever think about maybe looking into a Legacy GT Wagon? Hard to find but it'd be a good combination of a quick fun car, but it'd have a better fit and finish than the WRX.

The Golf R is a slick car though. Big fan of it as well. Some good options to choose from really.

twinturbobmw > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:25

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I heard overall they're pretty good. Maybe some turbo issued although that applies to any turbocharged car.

 V8 Rustler > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:28

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I would never buy a Golf R because you cannot turn the ESP completely off. It would drive me mad. Also it's fwd biased awd, unlike the subaru. So WRX would be my choice.

Stupidru > shpuker 01/01/2014 at 18:28

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Well I used to own an 06 LGT and while it was a great car, it became a love/hate relationship. I loved it when it was running good, but when it needed some attention I hated it. I would consider it again, however.

Stupidru > dogisbadob 01/01/2014 at 18:32

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Are VWs really that unreliable? I've had to pay to repair a headgasket on one of my Subarus and the stealership bent me over on that one.

Living in WI makes AWD not completely necessary, but a nice convenience to have.

The new WRX doesn't come in hatchback form. A Juke... seriously? Is it jalop-approved?

PowderHound > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:33

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Didn't read. WRX.

M54B30 > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:34

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I'd get the golf. The WRX from those years looks dumb to me. Just kind of a mix of boring and "mid-90s bargain Korean station wagon"

Stupidru >  V8 Rustler 01/01/2014 at 18:34

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That's another concern of mine. How well 4-Motion works... my Subarus have made me an AWD snob and I'm legitimately concerned about how well anything else would do the job. I've heard you can turn ESP off with the VAG-COM, however.

Do you know of any aftermarket swaybars for the VW that would help mitigate any mid-corner push?

Stupidru > M54B30 01/01/2014 at 18:36

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After sitting inside the VW, Subaru interiors make me want to punch kittens

RaymondStantz > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:37

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Shy away from all the reliability grumbles. My GTI has 55k relatively trouble free miles on it. Only issue I did have was the water pump. Covered under warranty at no charge and it's a very well documented issue. I've had 20k completely trouble free miles since.

The R is a brilliant car with lots of headroom for modifications. The Haldex system only feeds power to the rear if slip is detected, so it's not nearly as advanced as the Subaru system. Cheap speed? WRX. Something more solid and refined? R. It's a tough choice, and both communities behind each respective car are brilliant to boot.

dogisbadob > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:39

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Stealerships always bend you over, regardless of what kind it is, but VW is probably much worse, and even independent mechanics that actually know how to service VW's cost a lot more than normal. Even though the flat-4 layout can make working on it difficult, VW always finds a way to top that.

Actually, the Juke is in fact jalop-approved. check it out.
That, and other articles about the Juke here on Jalopnik, do in fact attest to its being quite good to drive.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I forgot the new WRX won't be a hatch; sorry!

RaymondStantz > dogisbadob 01/01/2014 at 18:39

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I've had 55k trouble free miles on my 2011 GTI. Water pump leak was covered under warranty and it's a very well documented issue. The reliability issues surrounding VW are hugely exaggerated from the MkIV era.

shpuker > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:40

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Ahh I could see that. Idk nothing wrong with change either. The Golf R is a great car, lots of power, great AWD system, great handling, and a fantastic fit & finish.

Could always take a look towards the V70R too. Gonna be older than the other two which is a down but also a slick car.

Stupidru > RaymondStantz 01/01/2014 at 18:43

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Are there any other big reliability issues on VWs?

What do you use your VW for? Dog? Kids? Picking stuff up from HD or taking bags of yard trash to the dump? How well has it held up to the tasks?

M54B30 > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:44

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Yeah, they are fantastic especially for their price point (think base and GTI). Subies are great but the Golf is so much easier to live with - quality, looks, interior, and ride comfort. I'll give up some "edge" for that

Milky > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:48

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If this was me, I'd pick WRX every time …. but I'm all for new experiences, and wouldn't get the same car twice if I was you.

But your field of choices seems VERY narrow IMO. What are both of these, 20k? I'd do some more shopping around if I was you, never hurts to go on tests drives.

RaymondStantz > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:48

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Not really. I run a major VW club with a few other guys in the DC area, and most of the car out there, even the high mileage cars, have been doing just fine. Note that a lot of these cars are also running a bit more power than stock! Hah.

I haul a bit of everything. Used to drive a Tacoma as a daily, and I'm perpetually surprised as to how much fits in the hatch with the seats down. Done my share of roadtrips. Hatch full to the brim and four guys. No problems whatsoever. A few friends have dogs and kids too with theirs. Perfectly fine.

Stupidru > shpuker 01/01/2014 at 18:49

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It seems like you and I would become great friends if given the opportunity- the V70R is another contender that I've taken under serious consideration, but after finding out about transmission and random electronic/sensor issues, the Volvo has become a backup plan to these two

Stupidru > Milky 01/01/2014 at 18:52

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I would LOVE to have a V70R but it seems that there are some niggling transmission issues along with electronic/sensor gremlins that pop up sometimes. The S60R and A4 are out, however, due to my four-legged friend who needs a place to rest in the back when we go up north in summer

Stupidru > RaymondStantz 01/01/2014 at 18:53

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Perfect! Just what I was looking for- thanks!

RaymondStantz > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:56

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No problem dude! Whatever choice you make, enjoy a brand new ride!

shpuker > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 18:58

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Hahah quite possibly. Fair point though. Volvo has had a number of small-not so small issues through the mid 2000's.

Trying to think up another around $20k option rockin the 5 doors and over 250hp with AWD. Can't think up any though. Not a bad set of options though. The WRX is probably a better platform if you ever decided to modify it in the future, but the Golf R is a lot more grown up.

Milky > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 19:01

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Ahh I see, well there is always the V70R and A4 Avant …. but I imagine finding a manual one is quite the hard find. Damn the manual awd hatch market is small.

Stupidru > shpuker 01/01/2014 at 19:23

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And that's the issue lol. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but I'm at that age where I still want to modify my cars, but I want a more grown-up and refined ride. I don't want people racing me at every stoplight, but I still want to be fast enough to get out of everybody else's way. Lastly, I don't want to hear and feel the vibrations of the engine and transmission all the time. I do a few smaller road trips every year and at least one large road trip, so I've learned to appreciate a bit less NVH

Stupidru > Milky 01/01/2014 at 19:24

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Why Audi didn't offer AWD and a 6-speed with the A3 will always be a mystery to me. It's one or the other :(

I'll take a longer look at the A4 wagon, but I'm pretty sure the V70R is a backup plan for the time being. Thanks for getting my gears turning on another option! :)

shpuker > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 19:26

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Yea I'd have to say the Golf R would probably be the best way for you to look. Still lots of potential, but more refined and grown up. Doesn't scream, "I wanna race you, and you, and you, and ALL OF YOU!"

N51fanatic > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 19:29

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R32, the interior of the WRX is awful. I couldnt daily the interior of a WRX, its that bad

Saracen > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 19:38

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Well, considering that I bought a white, 4-door Golf R...you know my answer :)

Saracen > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 19:38

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VW's are not unreliable. Ignore him. He's full of shit.

Saracen >  V8 Rustler 01/01/2014 at 19:39

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Yes, you can.

http://www.goapr.com/support/esp-de…

Stupidru > shpuker 01/01/2014 at 19:50

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HAHAHA I couldn't agree more. Car guys will know what it has, but to the casual passerby it's just another Golf.

Cheers mate!

desertdog5051 > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 19:51

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'Buru.

twinturbobmw > Saracen 01/01/2014 at 19:52

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That R looks great in white.

Stupidru > N51fanatic 01/01/2014 at 19:53

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R32 only comes with a DSG, and the 3.2L engine is a pig in the sense that it makes less power, less torque, weighs more (pushes more in the corner), and gets less mileage than the 2.0T.

However, I agree with you on the WRX interior. My wife's 09 Forester XT has the same interior, but we opted for one with the navigation screen so it looks a bit better than the standard stereo. If I got the WRX I would definitely swap in a tablet into the dash to give it a bit of pizazz, but there's no fixing the rest of it

Stupidru > dogisbadob 01/01/2014 at 19:54

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Side note, I took a look at the Mini Countryman S All4, and it only has an anemic 180hp. Thanks but no thanks. Minimum of 220hp on my next car

Stupidru > Saracen 01/01/2014 at 19:56

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The more and more I read, VWs have problems like all cars, but the worst of VW reliability is behind them and that if you take care of the car it will take care of you

Stupidru > desertdog5051 01/01/2014 at 19:56

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Why?

travis > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 20:01

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you know that he's talking about the Golf R, not an R32 right? It comes with a MANUAL ONLY, and is a 2.0 turbo engine...

ilostmypants > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 20:06

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didn't even blink an eye, WRX

I already own a 2.5i Impreza, and I pan on owning a WRX STI eventually, VW makes nice cars, just isn't quite a fit for me.

And if your worryed about a few numbers as far as fuel mileage is go buy a corolla.

dogisbadob > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 20:15

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I didn't know 180 hp was anemic!

My car has 188 hp but weighs more than anything you're considering. However, the 203 lb-ft probably helps though.

Where have all the lightweights gone? > dogisbadob 01/01/2014 at 20:39

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If you plan on having passengers taller than 5'8", avoid the Juke.

Dsscats > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 20:39

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They are Damn good cars, and that's coming from a subaru driver. Subaru is just a bit.....cheap feeling for the cost

N51fanatic > travis 01/01/2014 at 20:47

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I meant Golf R, not sure why i typed R32.

Stupidru > dogisbadob 01/01/2014 at 20:52

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My current car weighs a couple cheeseburgers too many above 3,000lbs and has a tired 165hp pushing it along. It's no slouch, but coming from 250hp/250ft-lb, I can't wait to get something with a little more "oomph"

desertdog5051 > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 21:06

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'Cause I like them.

Burrito de EJ25 > Brian Silvestro 01/01/2014 at 21:59

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While I agree that there are a lot of WRXs out there, there's no way people are going to turn their heads when a Golf passes by them. It is as interesting to look at as a Camry.

Brian Silvestro > Burrito de EJ25 01/01/2014 at 22:03

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Yes this is true, but people like us, people who know cars, that's where you'll get all the looks. Every time I see a Golf R I say "wait, is that a Golf R? Niccce."

WhereAreMyPants > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 22:21

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Having just purchased a 2013 WRX wagon, over the GTI, my answer is easy. The interior of the Scooby is crap, but it's a better drive in every way. Also, the VW is almost double the cost to insure, which definitely made a difference top me.

Stupidru > WhereAreMyPants 01/01/2014 at 22:49

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I guess I never thought about insurance differences. I just did a quick quote to replace my current car with either of these. The Golf R is $6/mo more to insure than the WRX Limited.

Long Live the Longdoor > Burrito de EJ25 01/01/2014 at 22:55

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I think the general onlooker (non jalop) wouldn't take a second look at the R, but every time I see one I stop and stare. I guess you might find yourself explaining to non car people why its not just a "regular" golf (but who cares).

Long Live the Longdoor > Stupidru 01/01/2014 at 23:04

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Im not sure what the price difference is in the states, but the Golf R is $8k more than the WRX here in Canada ($40k vs $32k) and that is likely reflected in the used market. So I'd likely gravitate towards the WRX, $8k buys a lot of gas. Although the R is a fine car, very well appointed

Burrito de EJ25 > Long Live the Longdoor 01/01/2014 at 23:55

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I just don't think it's that interesting of a vehicle even with the knowledge of its capabilities. There's refinement and maturity and then there's just flat out dull.

Stupidru > Long Live the Longdoor 01/02/2014 at 08:54

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Yes, new there is quite a gap in price, but used (at least in my area) the prices are within a few thousand. While a few grand will certainly buy a lot of gas, there are a few things that I have found myself saying "I would pay $X to get rid of that rattle/squeak/noise/annoying thing"

WhereAreMyPants > Stupidru 01/02/2014 at 08:56

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Interesting. In MD, for me, it was 70% more, which took the VW right off the table.

eovnu87435ds > Stupidru 01/02/2014 at 10:42

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Since you liked the VW transmission so much, why don't you go pick yourself up a Kartboy short shifter kit. It comes with new bushings as well and really makes every shift feel more mechanical and just "right". It gets rid of all the rubberyness. If that is the big reason you like the VW, check out the cheap upgrade you can do. Your Subaru dealership will even do it for you if you don't want to yourself.

Kartboy 5-Speed Shift Lever and Bushings Combo WRX

And here is a detailed report about short shifters in Subarus.

08+ WRX 5 Speed Short Shifter Comparison (Stock, SPT, Kartboy)

Stupidru > eovnu87435ds 01/02/2014 at 13:40

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Thanks for that!

I also liked the overall refinement of the VW. No transmission whine, exhaust wasn't overbearing and in-your-face, a much smoother ride, and the feel of everything was so much nicer in the VW- softer plastics, a nicer leather, etc.

I'll test both before I pick one, but right now it seems like the VW has more in its favor